Disciple of INDYCAR Weblog

February 2, 2010

The NASCAR – Indy Car Relationship

Filed under: The Disciple Blogs — Disciple of INDYCAR @ 12:19 pm

Please allow this observation right up front. I believe the annual presence of NASCAR at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is a good thing. No – a GREAT thing. Still, having been a fan of IMS since the 1950s, it is still weird to walk into a business in Speedway (or anywhere in Indianapolis) and see NASCAR driver images, cars or posters alongside those of Indy Cars. It seems almost sacrilegious.

That feeling hit home again as I watched the Jimmie Johnson deal on HBO and heard Mari Hulman in the intro telling the boys to start their engines. That is another ‘borrowed’ Indy Car tradition. The degree to which NASCAR has claimed and begun marketing Danica Patrick is really extreme considering she is running mostly ARCA and a handful of B-team events. Evidently Indy Car has enough value to have much of what it started and nurtured stolen over the years.

Again, there is not a thing wrong with having the NASCAR crowd visit once a year. It enhances the IMS experience. I used to go, but I got bored with it. Seeing oversized matchbox templates going around the track at ¾ the speed of an Indy Car does not really inspire my enthusiasm. Tens of thousands of others enjoy it, and I am happy they do.

Let’s face it. Since 1994 IMS has offered the biggest Indy Car stage and the granddaddy of them all to NASCAR. Why aren’t the Indy Cars racing at Daytona? I understand the arguments about the high banks and crappy pavement and such, and those concerns are warranted. Why use the oval in its entirety? The current cart-centric bending over going on in Indy Car certainly favors road course racing. Why not have a weekend (preferably a holiday weekend) in which all the current rungs of the Indy Car ladder run a road course arrangement at Daytona?

That sort of arrangement probably should have been negotiated as part of the deal, but why not get it going now?

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15 Comments »

  1. A road course for the IRL at Daytona would be the end of the IRL. If the IRL boys and girls can’t run the oval at Daytona, it would speak volumes.

    Lets hope Nascar knows better than to run any more road courses than they already do. The new leadership in the IRL lacks that intelligence.

    I am a season ticket holder to the Brickyard (from the beginning) and had tickets every year for the 500 until the last few years (gave them up for family reasons-nothing to do with the split). The Brickyard 400 was definitely a great decision.

    I also went to the first F1 race there. I was never so bored in my life. That was a mistake I hope they don’t repeat.

    Bottom line. If you run at Daytona, run on the big track. I’d love to see it.

    Comment by Bob F. — February 2, 2010 @ 1:41 pm | Reply

  2. Unfortunately the relationship with NASCAR has become strained. Adversarial would be a word to describe it. I believe this is all on ISC as the instigator.

    I believe that ISC have become similar to CART in churning a press machine to skew public perception. Look at the ESPN and FOX stories on Vision Racing. All they say is Tony George has left racing while in reality, Vision are doing all they can to be on the grid. And NASCAR has been cutting back as well, but we’re not hearing much about that. They have their economic issues. However, all the focus is being kept on IndyCar. This is being done to lure sponsors away. NASCAR is staging a covert war.

    IndyCar will never race at Daytona, not during a time when NASCAR is in a decline. Tony George always took the high road, maybe because he had the money behind him or it was his nature. But I don’t think that was the right way to deal with NASCAR. The new IMS, IRL regime I believe will be more defensive, making a point to counter NASCAR’s dirty PR tactics by publishing information to counter or at least clarify issues that are being purposely clouded and skewed by NASCAR paid media.

    Danica being lured to a team with a provisional spot on the ARCA grid was by design. This is not Dale Jr. by himself, this is NASCAR pulling strings and levers to make the Danica thing happen. And although she’ll only race a 12 or so events, ISC market her as if she were a full time Cup driver. It is my belief she’ll never run a Cup Event. They, NASCAR, have what they want, the right to show her as their own. Now it’s time to fool the public into thinking it’s the only place she races.

    IMO this is going to confuse fans and backfire, especially when they tune into the Daytona 500 and there’s no Danica.

    Comment by Mike Miller — February 2, 2010 @ 1:44 pm | Reply

    • To Mike Miller:

      You honestly think there is a PR campaign against the IRL/IMS by Nascar/ISC? Give me a break! The relationship is only strained because you and your fellow bootlickers are upset that Nascar fans didn’t buy into the IRL concept. Let’s face it, when Tony George started the IRL and began molding it, he was trying to create an open wheeled series that had some Nascar characteristics. Nascar fans were his target audience. It seems that ever since that idea failed, there is alot of hatred towards Nascar from the IRL side of things.

      Editor’s Note: What is a ‘bootlicker?’ I am assuming that is a name call with a bad connotation. You attempt to make points, but as usual it all ends up pointLESS. NASCAR fans have bought into the IRL concept long enough to attempt the theft of Danica Patrick. How could you possibly know what Tony George was thinking or who his target audience was when he started the IRL? It’s odd that you mention failure. The IRL is preparing for its 15th season while other Indy wannabe open wheel series have failed. Twice. Once you learn how to comprehend the words you read, whether they emanate from Mike Miller or myself, you will find that NASCAR is not necessarily an enemy, just an arms’ length partner.

      Comment by TroyM — February 2, 2010 @ 3:34 pm | Reply

      • bootlicker – someone who humbles himself as a sign of respect; who behaves as if he had no self-respect

        That definition fits you and many other Indycentric fans to the tee when it comes to your loyalty towards Tony George.

        Editor’s Note: Thank you for that definition. You are, of course, woefully out of touch. That is further evidenced by your obsession about referring to most who actually respect the traditions of Indy Car as Tony George ‘bootlickers.’ Whatever floats your boat, dude. You do not really know much. That rarely stops you from tossing even more nonsense out there. I admire your enthusiasm, however misbegotten.

        “NASCAR fans have bought into the IRL concept long enough to attempt the theft of Danica Patrick.”

        Nice try at deflection. Nascar fans did not embrace the IRL. They did not attend their races and become fans. As for your deflection, I believe Danica was interested in going to Nascar. She went after the rides. If you think Nascar had anything to do with it, then prove it. Btw, have you showed everyone your proof that they were paying for Dario?

        Editor’s note: Why is NASCAR promoting Danica as if she is the female coming of the Almighty on a Dale-inian scale if they are not stealing from Indy Car, particularly since she is running only ARCA and a few B-team races? Indy Car laid the groundwork. Proof: Common sense. Try it. Dario? Go talk to a few upper tier folks in Charlotte as I did. I know, it requires a lot less effort to pontificate on the Internet, and you are very good at that.

        “How could you possibly know what Tony George was thinking or who his target audience was when he started the IRL?”

        It was pretty obvious. The cars sounded like Nascar. They tried to put big square blocks with numbers on the cars. They purchased infomercials right after Nascar broadcasts. They tried to run at many traditional Nascar tracks. They began allowing cars to return to the race after lengthy garage visits. He was trying to create an open-wheeled Nascar. Of course, I don’t know exactly what he was thinking. I guess it is just about the same as your guess that the former CART owners are behind the shorter month of May.

        Editor’s Note: So you are saying those out of the box ideas were bad or that you did not agree with them? I am OK with that.

        “It’s odd that you mention failure. The IRL is preparing for its 15th season while other Indy wannabe open wheel series have failed. Twice.”

        Your favorite, tiring line. Of course we all know from the truth that has come out over the past year that the IRL was heavily subsidized and has never come close to turning a profit. Subsidized so much, that those with a financial interest decided that too much had been spent and enough was enough. Kind of hard to compete against that.

        Editor’s Note: Regardless of the degree to which you and your pals obfuscate, facts are facts. cart killed themselves twice while Indy Car lives on. Things are brighter than they have ever been. Title sponsor. New, youthful leadership. Television consistency. I hope we are not having this same pointless conversation in ten years.

        “Once you learn how to comprehend the words you read, whether they emanate from Mike Miller or myself”

        Very likely the same person. Funny how you responded and “Mike” has not responded at all.

        Editor’s Note: Mike probably has little desire to argue with your kind in the comments section of some blog. Good for him. The points he makes are always good.

        Comment by TroyM — February 4, 2010 @ 12:20 am

  3. I’m not sure the Indycars would be safe on that much banking, would they? Wouldn’t it be about like CART at Texas several years ago where they had drivers practically passing out?

    And I’m not a big road course guy, but after watching parts of the Rolex 24 hour thing, I think it’d be neat to see Indycars on that course. Part of the oval is included and maybe they could make that part even longer.

    But–despite the success of The Brickyard 400–I don’t see the two series working together at all. Not sure who’s fault it is…seems like N-car gets what they want and Indycar–aside from a chunk of change–gets nothing.

    Comment by redd — February 2, 2010 @ 4:41 pm | Reply

  4. Daytona wouldn’t be as extreme as Texas, G-force wise, as the corner radii are much larger at Daytona. Larger radius = lower centripetal force = lower G-forces = no blacking out (it sounds like Texas was just the other side of the threshhold where blackouts occur, hence why the IRL running 10 MPH slower there had no such problems). On the other hand, the problem with running the Daytona oval is that with the cars in their current configuration, it would be a glorified wind tunnel session. The red cars would disappear and everybody else would be a half a lap behind or further. That is to say, it’d be a lot like most of the current mile and a half races, but much worse.

    I don’t see ANYBODY drawing more than 10,000 people to Daytona for a road course race, unless they were to get a huge (multi-million dollar) promotional push from ISC. That will never happen, as they are not interested in any actual competition with NASCAR. NASCAR cooked up the GrandAm series in order to divide the American sports car fanbase at a time when the ALMS was gaining momentum, and had nearly matched IndyCars in interest level. Now that the ALMS threat is effectively over, NASCAR can keep GrandAm around as a loss leader: a supporting act for select NASCAR races and as a way to maintain control of the Daytona 24 Hours.

    Comment by The Speedgeek — February 2, 2010 @ 6:20 pm | Reply

  5. I think Indycar’s running the oval would be extremely dangerous. I don’t know about drivers blacking out, but I think it’s a high possiblilty. The 2.5 high banked D oval really isn’t a safe track configuration, and has never been.
    The road course isn’t very good. Plus, Homestead and St. Pete already are in Florida. My personal opinion is axe St. Pete and bring Sebring into the fold.

    Comment by dylanpt24 — February 2, 2010 @ 10:02 pm | Reply

  6. let us go through your latest load of donkey dung…

    Please allow this observation right up front. I believe the annual presence of NASCAR at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is a good thing. No – a GREAT thing. Still, having been a fan of IMS since the 1950s, it is still weird to walk into a business in Speedway (or anywhere in Indianapolis) and see NASCAR driver images, cars or posters alongside those of Indy Cars. It seems almost sacrilegious.

    right now defender, without NASCAR at the brickyard, how would they pay all the bills? do not give me the same old excuse that the indy500 is the be all and end all for everything IMS, because if that were true, then tony george would still be running things, and we would not be seeing the month of may being condensed.

    That feeling hit home again as I watched the Jimmie Johnson deal on HBO and heard Mari Hulman in the intro telling the boys to start their engines. That is another ‘borrowed’ Indy Car tradition. The degree to which NASCAR has claimed and begun marketing Danica Patrick is really extreme considering she is running mostly ARCA and a handful of B-team events. Evidently Indy Car has enough value to have much of what it started and nurtured stolen over the years.

    ahhh yes, danica partmylegstrick. evidently, CART/CCWS has enough value to have much of what it started and nurtured stolen over the years. anything good for the irl version of indycars, is of course, pretty much ex-CART/CCWS. what a complete tool you are with this comment.

    Again, there is not a thing wrong with having the NASCAR crowd visit once a year. It enhances the IMS experience. I used to go, but I got bored with it. Seeing oversized matchbox templates going around the track at ¾ the speed of an Indy Car does not really inspire my enthusiasm. Tens of thousands of others enjoy it, and I am happy they do.

    well, at increasingly less tracks, tens of hundreds enjoy watching low-tech spec indycars run around the track at about 3/4’s of the speeds that the CART indycars used to run at. again, do you think before you open your mouth?

    Let’s face it. Since 1994 IMS has offered the biggest Indy Car stage and the granddaddy of them all to NASCAR. Why aren’t the Indy Cars racing at Daytona? I understand the arguments about the high banks and crappy pavement and such, and those concerns are warranted. Why use the oval in its entirety? The current cart-centric bending over going on in Indy Car certainly favors road course racing. Why not have a weekend (preferably a holiday weekend) in which all the current rungs of the Indy Car ladder run a road course arrangement at Daytona?

    first off defender, do not try and spin all that ails the indycar world now as being the fault of the CART contingent. the hulman regime runs things, period. as i stated earlier, if everything was as rosy as you try and lead people to believe, then tony george would stil be running things, and the indycar series would be on ESPN/ABC, and vision racing would still be operating with full sponsorship. obviously, tony tried his hand at this, and failed miserably, and after being ousted from running the whole show, he bailed before the ship goes down. see robert ismay, of titanic fame.

    That sort of arrangement probably should have been negotiated as part of the deal, but why not get it going now?

    remember defender of the irl, NASCAR does not need indycar, never did. tony invited them to the brickyard, they did not ask to be let in. NASCAR owes squat to the irl.

    Paul Ishmynob

    Editor’s Note: Good thing I am not inclined to take credibility (or for that matter spelling or grammar) lessons from you, Mr. Ishmynob. I can tell from your level headed maturity that what you say is gospel. Say, are you by chance Canadian? If your angst over the years since cart killed itself twice is such that you are unable to watch Indy Cars, why on earth do you feel compelled to comment on them so much? That seems completely retarded.

    On a serious note, seek help. You need it. The sociopathic behavior of you and your six or seven little buddies is no longer relevant. You really ought to find a new trick.

    Comment by paul ishmynob — February 3, 2010 @ 2:23 am | Reply

    • well, surprise, surprise. i comment directly on the topic, point by point, as you always squeal like a pig to others to do, and yet, you still cannot respond like a man. refute my points fats.

      i will say to you, why do you and your two or three buddies always keep harping on a series you say you hate so much, CART/CCWS? it is gone, move on and help further a dying sport you claim to love, indycars, the irl version.

      take your own advice in your own reply to me, find a new act mr. round mound of despair. your act has become so tired and predictable.

      Paul Ishmynob

      Editor’s Note: Neither you, nor ANY of your ‘facts’ or ‘points’ have even one ounce of merit. Therefore, the only logical retort to your laughably infantile taunting is ridicule, Mr. Ismynob. And if you do not grow up quickly you will probably be relegated to the spam folder, pal.

      Comment by paul ishmynob — February 3, 2010 @ 8:25 pm | Reply

      • so let me get this straight pal, you write your commentary which is completely biased, with no facts that you can back up (a theme throughout the years on various forums with you), and always taking pot shots at a series you claim you do not care about, yet you continually bring it up.

        so, i wrote a rebuttal, which obviously got through your thick skin and touched a nerve, and instead of replying, you threaten me with being relegated to the spam box. oh no, not the spam box. hey dolan junior, why not give me the dreaded blue text warning first. grow up buddy.

        one more thing, i am not your pal, not even close. you should be so lucky. let us stick to the topics and my reply to your post, let’s talk about that please. i really hoped you would answer me, point on point.

        Paul Ishmynob

        Editor’s Note: 1. Stop whining like a panty-wearing little girl. 2. Change your handle to something that doesn’t sound like it came from a grade 2 playground. 3. If you want answers point by point, start by making actual points.

        Now stay on topic or you are history. Capeche?

        Comment by paul ishmynob — February 4, 2010 @ 12:24 am

  7. Why are you deleting posts,,,,,,,,, The post count always says a higher number than what you have shown,,,,,,

    Should the truth burden you so heavily that you must hide from it?,,,,or should the truth set you free?,,,,, your desolate island is taking on water. oh my,,,,the hopelessness you must be experiencing,,,,perhaps I may help?,,,,I have brought a shovel to dig further with if you choose,,,,,,and a pair of floaties to wrap around your arms and jump among the circling sharks,,,,,and at least have a remote chance of a passing cargo ship on the desolate seas sighting you and giving you a slight chance of survival.

    This is sociopathic behavior at its finest,,,,,,

    Free at last,,,,,free at last,,,,,thank george almighty,,,,I’m free at last,

    Pat R.
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL.

    Editor’s Note: There are just two types of posts that get manually deleted:

    1. Spam that does not get caught in the spam filter; e.g., online Viagra pharmacies, Nigerian scammers, make your johnson bigger snake oil, web links that cause really bad things to happen to your computer, etc., and…

    2. Idiotic foolishness that has nothing to do with any topic being discussed, usually from one of the six or seven cartroaches so inclined toward that particular mental deficiency. Even then I will allow them to slide until I have had a good enough chance to f#*@ with the idiot(s).

    Hope that answers your question; feel free to comment on topics being discussed and come back any time.

    Comment by Ringworm — February 3, 2010 @ 2:27 pm | Reply

  8. I was also shocked that they didn’t strike a deal for Indycars to race at Daytona, in exchange for staging the Brickyard 400. Years later, the IRL cars tested at Daytona’s road course (before the ’07 season I believe), and discussion turned to a Daytona race again (with the idea being a big season-opening event during SpeedWeeks at Daytona). But that fell apart again, probably from a combination of lack of interest in that event and from ISC pooh-pooh’ing it. I still wouldn’t mind seeing it, as it would be a big deal (even in Indycar’s downtrodden state) to see them at the second-most-famous track in the country.

    Comment by gnome — February 3, 2010 @ 7:50 pm | Reply

  9. Well Done! I Like it!

    Comment by glasnost — March 19, 2010 @ 11:51 pm | Reply

  10. So why are so many drivers leaving for NASCAR, and making more money doing it?

    Comment by Gary — May 18, 2010 @ 3:30 pm | Reply

  11. Let’s face it. When it comes to racing NASCAR has everyone beat, and I am a big fan of NASCAR. But at one point I was also a Indy fan when they were running on mostley ovels. I would love to that again. I know Indycars can’t or shouldn’t run on high banked tracks, but there are still alot of low bank or flat tracks they can run on. If you look a the tracks that NASCAR runs on most of them are owned by the same people and many of newer tracks were built with the idea of having both an IRL and NASCAR race there.

    Tracks that Indycars can race on are: Charlet Motor Speedway, Atlanta Motor Spweedway, Texas Motor Speedway, New Hampshire Motor Speedway, Kuntucky Motor Speedway, Kansas Speedway, Chicagoland Speedway, Iowa Speedway, Nashville Speedway, Richmond Internaional Raceway, Auto Club Speedway, Michigan Internaional Speedway, Nazerith Speedway. That’s 13 tracks not including IMS and I’m sure that there are more that they use to go to that are still around. Not to mention other track that are out there that curently don’t hold BIG events.

    Stock cars need high banking to keep their speed up and Indycars don’t, but neather really belong on roadcourses. NASCAR only has two roadcours races a year and that’s ok to mix it up alittle. (but I still wish they would get rid of Infineon) And nether car belongs on a street cours eather. If you want to see really good racing it has to be on well desined ovals dosent mater if it’s Indy or NASCAR.

    Indy needs to go back to running on mostly ovals again and they need more american drivers of they are going to get back into the american market.

    They also need to make the cars at a lower cast, and I’m sorry but the delta wing is not the anwser.

    Comment by Joe Segalla — June 29, 2010 @ 11:04 pm | Reply


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